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DISCLAIMER: Neither James nor Matt are financial advisers, and this is not financial advice.
James welcomes longtime friend and former client, Matt Raad of eBusiness Institute, to Episode 1077 of this podcast. Matt and his wife Liz have run valuable online education events on digital investing for James’s clients. James recalls one in particular who transitioned from real estate to online investing through Matt and Liz’s program.
In this catch-up, James and Matt will be discussing recent changes in the landscape of digital real estate.
Matt will talk about the opportunities to be found when you decide to buy and sell websites.
They’ll look at the impact of Google’s updates on content websites, and in particular, passion sites.
And they’ll explore elements of website valuation like visitor time on page and website monetization.
Table of contents
1. The changes that prompted this talk
2. Content sites and the update you should know about
3. The challenges of online business
4. Spotting the opportunities
5. The cons and pros of having less
6. Where passion plays a part
7. Renovation as a key strategy
8. Longevity, lists and community
9. Finding that content sweet spot
10. Doing more of what works
11. What Google notices and looks for
12. The significance of engagement
13. How important is the About page?
14. More content versus relevant content
15. Buying, selling, or building?
16. The impact of paid traffic
17. Community and ecommerce
18. A lot of things happening in the space
The changes that prompted this talk
James has noticed recent changes and disruptions in the online space, partly through his partners involved in paid traffic and SEO. He’d like to understand the impacts of these changes, especially the influence of AI on content website portfolios managed and educated by Matt and his students.
There’s variability in market responses – some clients are experiencing record successes while others face challenges such as enterprise pullbacks and financial pressures. James believes it’s important to understand these dynamics and the role of AI in shaping future trends.
Content sites and the update you should know about
Matt shares his take on the impact of these changes in the online space, particularly the Google Helpful Content Update (HCU). His focus is on content sites, which have been significantly affected by the update. E-commerce businesses, which he avoids due to their complexity, have been less affected.
Matt and his wife Liz started in bricks-and-mortar businesses before transitioning to online businesses, maintaining a focus on content sites. Matt notes that their background in non-physical inventory businesses has helped them navigate the recent Google update, which specifically targets content sites.
Over the past six months, Matt has been networking extensively to understand the true impact of the update. He’s seen a mixed bag of results, with some content sites performing exceptionally well while others have experienced significant traffic drops. Matt seeks to uncover the real truth amid fear and negative speculation in the online community.
The challenges of online business
Since starting in 2008, Matt and Liz have faced numerous Google updates, experiencing significant traffic drops multiple times, which Matt says can be gut-wrenching.
Despite these setbacks, Matt stresses the resilience needed to succeed as an entrepreneur. He draws parallels between online businesses and bricks-and-mortar businesses, noting that challenges are inevitable in any business venture. Beginners and intermediates, says Matt, should expect annual disruptions and stay persistent regardless, as the journey of an entrepreneur is fraught with challenges, whatever the industry.
Spotting the opportunities
Matt emphasizes the importance of resilience and recognizing opportunities amidst challenges in online business. Given, Google updates often impact beginners more significantly, but Matt stresses that for every site that suffers, another site benefits by ranking higher. He advises those affected to take a deep breath and seek ways to capitalize on these changes.
Setbacks are inevitable, but they present opportunities like those leveraged by Warren Buffett, who has learned to profit when there is fear in the market. Matt encourages listeners to remain calm, let the dust settle, and find ways to adapt and thrive. It’s something he teaches his own children, telling them there is always a way to succeed.
The cons and pros of having less
James and Matt discuss the importance of diversification in online business, highlighting the dangers of being single-source dependent. James recalls how his SEO business survived past Google updates due to their ability to adapt and not rely solely on one method or source.
Matt says maintaining a portfolio of around ten websites is a good idea, as having multiple sites can help cushion the impact of updates. He notes that within a portfolio, typically two sites generate most of the revenue, while others provide steady income, aligning with the 80:20 rule.
Now, despite advocating for a diversified portfolio, Matt also points to the value of focusing on winning sites, especially for beginners. He warns that advising novices to build multiple sites may lead to low-quality, spammy sites. He suggests instead starting with a few and scaling up selectively.
James has reduced his own number of income streams to focus on quality, following the principle of “less but better.” His recurring subscription membership model, established in 2009, has provided stable income and allowed him to focus on fewer but more profitable ventures.
Both James and Matt recognize the growing importance of YouTube in content strategy. James tells how leveraging YouTube videos, transcriptions, and original posts has significantly boosted their online presence and ad revenue, reinforcing the need for a focused, quality-driven approach in the evolving online landscape.
Where passion plays a part
Matt stresses the importance of passion in working on online business sites. He advises people to choose projects they can commit to for five to ten years. The sites individuals feel passionate about, says Matt, are the ones they will put the most effort into and are likely to ultimately succeed with.
James shares how he reduced his domains from 2000 to three core websites, focusing on projects he is passionate about. His main sites now include JamesSchramko.com, where he houses his memberships, VisionFind.com, which he runs with his wife, and a surf content site that has been successful due to focused efforts and passion.
James speaks of his YouTube channel, which has gained significant traction thanks to the expertise of Zac Mason. By creating targeted, high-quality content, the channel has achieved virality and drives traffic back to his content site, demonstrating the power of focused, passionate work.
Long-term investment in this content site has grown it significantly, thanks to James’s passion and strategic efforts. He envisions selling the site eventually and is currently considering a product line based on the site’s content.
Renovation as a key strategy
Renovating content sites, says Matt, is a key approach to maximizing their value. This involves improving traffic through SEO or paid methods and exploring alternative monetization strategies.
Matt suggests that content site owners, like James, can enhance their sites by adding new elements, such as the travel component Matt suggested to a client.
Matt’s client successfully added a travel category to her site, allowing her to generate income through affiliate deals with hotels and travel services. Integrating real content from personal experiences such as surfing trips, says Matt, can attract direct sponsorships and provide valuable recommendations to the audience.
James agrees – these kinds of additions align with the interests of his target market and could lead to further monetization opportunities.
Matt reiterates the importance of leveraging passion in content creation and constantly testing new ideas to find successful methods. Passionate, strategic renovations can significantly boost a site’s performance, transforming a content site into a multifaceted platform that attracts a broader audience and generates multiple revenue streams.
Longevity, lists and community
Going back to passion, Matt believes long-term interest and commitment leads to the creation of authentic, valuable content, which aligns with what Google and human audiences prefer over AI-generated material.
Matt also highlights the significance of building an email list and a community around the site. He encourages site owners to consider whether they can create a following around their topic, using tools like Facebook pages and email lists to engage their audience. This community-building is crucial for the longevity and success of content sites.
James agrees. His recent focus on developing a YouTube channel has significantly boosted his site’s performance. Inspired by Pat Flynn‘s success with his Pokémon channel, James sees the potential for similar success in his surfing niche, where a strong, passionate community can enhance SEO and overall site growth.
Finding that content sweet spot
James had some journey finding the content sweet spot for his surfing website, which initially struggled with forums and news but found success with equipment reviews. Focusing on equipment, where the money in surfing lies, has been key, and creating high-quality videos comparing and reviewing products has resonated with both consumers and manufacturers.
Manufacturers appreciate James’s content, which often leads to increased sales for them, as with a fin manufacturer in Hawaii. James emphasizes the need to make content that addresses common questions and needs, effectively creating the videos that manufacturers should have made themselves.
Doing more of what works
It’s important, says Matt, to try different approaches to find what works best, especially for beginners. He mentions the success story of his and James’s friend Alborz, who sold his content site for $64 million and started another one, which is now valued at over $100 million. This is a great example of doing more of what works.
Alborz’s success came from his passion for cars and starting multiple websites to find the right one. Initially, Alborz created 17 websites, narrowed them down to three successful ones, and eventually focused on the car niche, which he was passionate about. This approach paid off hugely.
What Google notices and looks for
In the age of AI and the Helpful Content Update, passion-driven content sites are highly valued by Google.
Matt highlights that sites offering genuinely helpful content, like James Schramko’s surfboard reviews, align perfectly with what Google seeks.
As James explains, his strategy involves gathering comprehensive information about products, including personal test notes, to create content that consumers find invaluable. This meets Google’s criteria for helpful content, as it provides the detailed, authentic information that users want.
Matt warns strongly against producing generic or formulaic content – the Helpful Content Update targets spammy sites lacking genuine value. He advises content creators to focus on quality over quantity, using metrics like time on page from Google Analytics to gauge content effectiveness.
Passionate, high-quality content that genuinely aids the user not only pleases Google but also builds a loyal audience, making such sites more valuable and sustainable in the long run.
The significance of engagement
Matt underscores the importance of engagement metrics, such as time on page, when evaluating and purchasing websites. By analyzing Google Analytics, he identifies patterns and benchmarks that indicate high engagement, which is crucial for the site’s success.
High engagement, reflected in longer time on page, is a common trait of successful websites, often seen in sites making significant revenue.
Matt advises site owners to use tools like Google Analytics and Google Search Console to monitor engagement metrics. Pages with average time on page exceeding a minute, and ideally around four minutes, tend to belong to high-performing sites, showing how quality content is key in maintaining user interest and meeting Google’s standards.
How important is the About page?
In the context of recent Google updates, the About page is very important. The About page, says Matt, is often heavily visited, particularly on passion sites, as visitors want to know who is behind the content and what makes it credible.
Matt advises that optimizing the About page is essential for improving site engagement and credibility. In the era of Google’s EEAT (Experience, Expertise, Authoritativeness, and Trustworthiness) signals, a well-crafted About page can significantly enhance a site’s performance and trustworthiness. James notes the importance of this and plans to check the About page on his surf site.
More content versus relevant content
James shares a key lesson about the importance of relevant content over sheer quantity. He actually had to delete 1,099 out of 3,000 posts on his site after an SEO analysis by his friend Gert Mellak. This drastic measure helped clarify the site’s focus and improved its search engine ranking, demonstrating that more content isn’t always better.
Matt agrees, reiterating that engagement is key and that removing irrelevant or low-performing content can help a site perform better by presenting a clearer picture to Google. This aligns with the strategy they recommend to clients, focusing on quality and relevance to ensure better engagement and visibility.
James advises content creators to periodically review and prune their content, focusing on what resonates with their audience. Build on successful content, he says, and learn from feedback, using this approach to refine and enhance their content strategy continually. This method has proven successful for both his website and YouTube channel.
Buying, selling, or building?
Matt says the current market presents a prime opportunity for buying websites, especially those that have proven resilient through recent Google updates. While building and selling have been popular strategies, now is an excellent time to seek out bargain deals on websites that are still performing well.
A friend of Matt’s bought a site for $7,000, benefiting from an engaged email list of 20,000 and a favorable deal with an ad network.
Matt advises that experienced buyers should focus on websites valued under $50,000 for optimal returns. He stresses the importance of understanding the market and leveraging downturns in the economy to find valuable deals, a strategy that has proven successful for many professional buyers.
The impact of paid traffic
Matt acknowledges a shift towards incorporating paid traffic, such as Facebook and YouTube advertising, into their strategies alongside SEO. There’s a potential for substantial returns when buying underperforming websites, called by some “fallen angels,” and leveraging paid traffic to boost their performance.
James mentions Charley Valher‘s success with YouTube advertising – ValherMedia.com has consistently achieved high returns on investment for clients. James too has had positive experiences with paid traffic, particularly through an ongoing campaign that effectively acquires email addresses and promotes his book.
Matt points to the importance of having a skilled team or agency, like Charley’s, to manage paid traffic campaigns. While paid traffic has traditionally been challenging for beginners, it now presents a viable and valuable strategy for more advanced users, especially when combined with purchasing undervalued websites.
James and Matt agree that integrating paid traffic can open up new opportunities and significantly enhance the potential of websites. And Matt confirms that his program provides coaching and strategy updates to help clients effectively navigate these changes and capitalize on the growing opportunities in the market.
Community and ecommerce
Matt looks at the resurgence of forums and community-driven websites, which are getting increased attention from Google. Despite their non-passive nature, forums are valuable for building engaged communities, making them attractive to those seeking to buy or develop websites with email lists and forums.
Community engagement is valuable. James and Matt both advocate for authentic, human-generated content over AI material. They stress the importance of creating real sites with strong community backing, as evidenced by the continued success and high valuation of passion sites like food blogs.
Matt also touches on the opportunities in dropshipping, particularly for more advanced users. James has a client himself excelling in this field by handling common logistical challenges, making it a viable and profitable option. Both agree that while e-commerce can be complex, it offers substantial potential when executed with expertise.
A lot of things happening in the space
James and Matt have discussed the dynamic opportunities in the online space, stressing the importance of passion and expertise in website management.
Matt shares the excitement of buying and selling websites, focusing on keyword research and Google Analytics as key components.
Matt’s coaching program, which features successful students turned coaches, is growing, and their strategies are expanding to include SaaS, dropshipping, and local digital agencies.
James and Matt touch on the trend of corporate roll-ups in the online space, where big companies buy passion blogs and content sites for significant amounts. Matt encourages listeners to capitalize on these opportunities, noting the increasing interest from major corporates in acquiring well-established, authentic websites.
Those interested in Matt’s online class can look it up via James’s affiliate link. James has had nothing but positive feedback from the people he’s referred to Matt and Liz.
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